Me:Would you rather live with the pain of losing the person who means the most to you,or give your life,leaving them with the pain that you would have felt same?
Him:that's a difficult decision
Me:that is a hard decision.. I agree
I was thinking about that and other things
but
don't you think God is the one who needs our forgiveness,and needs us to accept him?
cause I mean.. otherwise,wouldn't he not exist?
Him:hmmm....guess he wouldn;t and without him, we wouln't necessarily understood the basics of morality, do we?
Me:well,idk,would we?
it seems the bible has helped us understand that
and so has living
Him:hrmmm, in a way, yes
Me:God isn't physically here
as in like
the specific entity of God,if we consider him as one concept
Him:ahhh
Me:all the pain and suffering we go through,we suffer through it because he created us
if you want to think of him as the divine creator
but it's necessary,because every emotion is based on relative shift in mood
otherwise we wouldn't feel
just like the perception of time is based on relative difference
the perception of difference is based on relative degree of space
and god would be what allowed difference through change
Me:but God,himself,could not exist within the same realm of time and difference,otherwise he wouldn't have truly been the creator,would he?
Me:but God,himself,could not exist within the same realm of time and difference,otherwise he wouldn't have truly been the creator,would he?
Him:huh...
Me:unless it was something trippy like star ocean,and we're all characters in a video game or movie or some shit like that
Him:lol
Me:and there are other dimensions
and the beings can come and go as they please
and even then,they still aren't really Gods,are they?
Him:no, not necessarily
Me:even if they created this world
and this was the video game,the creation
they would not truly be gods
because to exist,something must have created them,if they exist within a construct of difference
this is like super-metaphysical theory right here :3
Him:lmao
Me:what truly doesn't make sense to me
is how have the majority of the people in the world not thought about things this deeply?
how come you don't hear about this type of theory? how come it isn't mainstream when it's pure logic?
I think I know what God is
Him:what?
Me:okay,well.. imagine you died
and you lived in a state of bliss
where things were happy and they stayed that way
heaven
but nothing bad happened
ever
first of all,wouldn't that be a completely phony state of existence?
and secondly,if nothing bad happened,and no pain was felt,we,as humans,would grow accustomed to the "happiness" and it would lose the value it had because it would become normal.. am I right?
Him:yea, that's right
Me:okay,soo....
if it became neutral,and we couldn't feel difference,wouldn't that get..boring?
if it was like the matrix,would you take the red pill?
lol
Him:in plain honesty, it would get boring
hence force, a utopia can easily also be a dystopia at the same time
Me:yes
disorder
even if people had been so horribly hurt in their lifetime
that
they were scarred and scared
without difference,they would ultimately.. forget what difference was,and be driven back to it out of curiousity and desire for change
for an adventure..
even if God created his creation,and the concept of free will
if he could control everything about his reality,and he had a perception in order to have a will,wouldn't he get bored,too?
Me:if he created a world,created a difference,wouldn't he also want to experience that same change himself because he wouldn't have created it without a motivation because otherwise,he wouldn't have conscious will?
Him:umm, yea, I would think, if it was seen to show fit
Me:otherwise,it would imply he doesn't know everything
lol
why would we make a simulation of reality when we know exactly what is going to happen?
there really wouldn't be any surprises,would there?
Him:not so much, yea
Me:it's like a video game
or maple story
you get lvl 200,max mesos,all the rare items,all the fame,everything
then what?
don't you.. start over eventually,if you're going to keep playing the game?
Me:do you see where I'm going with this?
Me:plus,under the laws of the universe,energy must originate from energy
Him:hmm
yea, i see where you were going
Me:God has to be energy
the same energy that our spirit is
the same energy any energy is
and that must be what the self truly is
a product of energy plus our body structure
which makes sense because the cerebral cortex,something
more thoroughly developed in humans compared to most(if
not all) other animals,is what is known to affect states of
consciousness and perception especially
I mean,that's why we'll always exist
just not in the same state of consciousness
and our state of consciousness is constantly changing based
upon neurochemical reactions triggered by changes in our
surrounding our our body's chemistry
or even by self-analysis
*or our
it explains why God wouldn't want us to destroy the meaning
we experience
because it would utterly lead to the destruction of the human
species,destruction of the state of knowing that "created
us",destruction of the ability to appreciate life until it is
rebuilt
which would take alot more senseless suffering
as.. our species would basically go extinct because of our own
failures
and the energy would have to go through the process of
reconstruction.. evolution would just start all over again
Him:that would be one big cycle
Me:which,when we look to the past,isn't that exactly what it has
been?
isn't that what almost everything is?
isn't that what scientists theorize the universe is undergoing?
you do realize
if we are all energy,the self is energy
that time is truly an illusion just as difference is,when you
consider it in that context?
Him:yea, when put in something like that
Me:so then,do you see why the Bible is a very good thing?
why morality is a good thing? o.o
Him:Oo
Me:is that a yeah or a no? lol
Him:yea, I see it
Me:religion
teaches spirituality
reverence for the human spirit,the essence of our existence,God
so we don't have to suffer
but to not suffer perpetually
we have to suffer in the present
that's where karma,reincarnation,the concept of
sin,hell,heaven,nirvana,that's where all of this ties in
that's how
buddhism,paganism,christianity,catholicism,judaism,wiccan
beliefs,all these religions
they're exactly the same.. if they serve the purpose of teaching
morality,they're exactly the same thing..
do you see it?
Him:yea,
I'm definitely seeing it
Me:the problem is
there are mistranslations,misinterpretations
the source of misunderstanding is our different perceptions
but jesus..
we have to accept our humanity and other peoples'
humanity,because we're all the same.. we're the same
energy,we're the same.. we'll all occupy each others' shoes
literally
Me:if we keep destroying humanity,our ability and reason to give
meaning to things,all good will utterly be pointless
and we have to forgive
because anything else is taking positive energy from the whole
process
Me:forgiving allows us to feel love.. positive,motivation for positive
change
it's the action that creates love
and we have to realize that people make mistakes,and that
anger can be a choice,or otherwise it is a product of
misunderstanding
we have to wake up. we need a spiritual awakening,to wake
people up to the idea of having a choice.. that they truly can
live
that they really can control their destiny
Me:because of the misinterpretations of religion and the pain
those misunderstandings cause,people are losing faith,people
are losing the will to forgive or the knowledge of the ability..
they're losing and destroying human will without even
realizing it
now I frankly don't know how
Me:I'm able to see this,but I dedicated my life to living for god at
a young age. I sold my soul for that cause,because I
experienced such devestation,I had nothing but faith,and
since I couldn't create it because I did not know then why I
should have it,I had to borrow it from God
by giving my life,dedicating my life to God and truth,to be
true to myself
I
have been lead to these understandings.. I guess I'm
something of a channel... o.o
Him:o.o
Me:I was born into my life,with my genes
and bipolar disorder was not my choice,nor was the
depression
I suffer beyond what I cause,but I choose to
but because I still have always strived to remain as true to
myself as I possibly could,and I never betrayed myself or my
method of learning
that's why I'm different.. that's why
I didn't have to read these truths to come to understand
them,how to describe them
these aren't just things I've read somewhere
this is a product of my own mind,my logic
I think that it means I'm purely a source of positive energy..
o.o;
because it's easier to die for me,you know
my genes say I should
statistics say I should
I probably should have died over the course of the various
times I tried to
but I didn't,and I learned even more from living
..What do you think this means?
Him:what it means,
Me:?
Him:it's hard to put into words, but kinda like a an intentional miracle, or more like
Me:...now I have to tell you the weirdest parts
when I was in 8th grade,I drew a picture,started to write a story about a fallen angel
who suffered through bipolar disorder,though I didn't know what bipolar disorder really was then,or that I was bipolar
and I wrote an epitath that I can't remember
I don't really remember the story,just that it existed,and that it scared my parents so they took it away
and so then you know how I drew that mandala without knowing what it was,right?
Him:yea?
i remember that
Me:well
I had this feeling
about it
so I went to 4chan.org with it
that's how I found out what it meant
they told me what it was
so I looked it up,and they recommended I look into certain things
I followed that through google,or the link,or w/e
and it lead me to pistis sophia
because apparently
my mandala has the same symbology as the philosopher's stone
and sophia was the creator of it
did I tell you anything about her?
what I read?
Him:not much bout it was said
Me:well.....
A special and richly coloured development is given to the mythical form of the Sophia of the Gnostic Book Pistis Sophia.[67] The two first books of this writing to which the name Pistis Sophia properly belongs, treat for the greater part[68] of the fall, the Repentance, and the Redemption of the Sophia. She has by the ordinance of higher powers obtained an insight into the dwelling-place appropriated to her in the spiritual world, namely, the thesauros lucis which lies beyond the XIIIth Aeon. By her endeavours to direct thither her upward flight, she draws upon herself the enmity of the Authades, Archon of the XIIIth Aeon, and of the Archons of the XII. Aeons under him; by these she is enticed down into the depths of chaos, and is there tormented in the greatest possible variety of ways, in order that so she may incur the loss of her light-nature.
In her utmost need she addresses thirteen penitent prayers (metanoiai) to the Upper Light. Step by step she is led upwards by Christus into the higher regions, though she still remains obnoxious to the assaults of the Archons, and is, after offering her XIIIth Metanoia, more vehemently attacked than ever, till at length Christus leads her down into an intermediate place below the XIIIth Aeon, where she remains till the consummation of the world, and sends up grateful hymns of praise and thanksgiving. The earthly work of redemption having been at length accomplished, the Sophia returns to her original celestial home.
Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)
Him:hmm,
Me:the weirder thing is
somebody told me to look at this particular article by Jung
the famous neo-freudian psychologist
Me: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/philosopherstone.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/jacob_pillar_dna.htm&usg=__2CdTBAzDiISdb5ljGBybWbmftb4=&h=516&w=571&sz=27&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=uy-r97aWo80EgM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphilosopher%2527s%2Bstone%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1
notice how that picture..
scroll down
to where the picture is actually located in the context.
the bit about the jacob's ladder
and the holy grail
and alchemy
Him:mmk
Him:Oo
Me:also
last year
i did kundalini meditation
had a kundalini awakening o.o
Him:oo
Me:there's more
lol
Him:lol
Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala
Me:jung
is the one
who said that mandala's symbolis
*symbolize
the unconscious,our true state of existence
that they can be used to understand the self,the collective unconscious,as they are universally occuring across many cultures and universally hold symbolic meaning
he
http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=810&Itemid=40
Me:Buddhism, Christianity, Islam: (530 B.C to 0 – 600 A.D) all make mention of Sophia, yet each tradition adapts her to their own cosmology; and all increasingly become critical of nature. The goal of all these spiritual traditions is to rise above the earth and achieve Nirvana. Heaven, or Paradise.
dude,wtf
Him:Oo
Me:shi
). Mary Magdalene is described here as an intimate of Christ, mentored by Him and recognized as one who supported and taught the apostles. Early tapestries illustrate this prominence and relationship. This gospel records further teachings of Christ, such as:
“All that is born, all that is created and all the elements of nature are interwoven and united with each other.” And then Christ goes on to say: “all that is composed will be decomposed.” This is the fundamental Sophianic challenge: to view ourselves as a process unfolding within nature. Such a view places us beyond religious dogma, and opens us to on-going Creation.
Me:What wisdom awaits us here? Man’s deep fear of illness and death informs his pervasive need to control nature. Certainly, man’s innate intelligence is here to cure illness and provide palliative care for the dying. What we have not done is penetrate further into how fundamentally we are interwoven and united with nature, and how she provides the cog-wheel of our evolution.
Me:Henri Corbin has written: “It is not the incarnate Sophia’s role to bind or connect us to the earth, but to help us recognize that our understanding of ourselves as separate from the earth is a delusion.”
I hadn't been
at this page
before
omfg
the..irony...omg
Him:O.o
Me:what makes it
weird
er
is that
Here we see throughout the themes of descent and the balancing of opposites: the basic principles of soul work It is evident in the inserted circles of Demeter and Kali: the nurturing container (she who brings forth new life) and the transformer (she who demands the sacrifice that leads to truth). It is seen in the caduceus: the active equilibrium of opposing forces coming together in such a way as to create a higher form. It is evident in the earth, as child close to her heart, and in the symbols of the Kabbala whose purpose is to connect the finite world with the infinite.
she who demands the sacrifice that leads to truth
Him:O_o
Me:this
is too ironic
I
Sophia is emerging now, in these times of immense change, to challenge us again with her ways of knowing. She instructs us through her basic principles: (1) the creative tension of opposites (2) descent journeys (3) transcendence to a new form. Repetitive experience with each of these principles changes the nature of our ego, our reality and our relationship to “the Other.” These principles demonstrate the dynamism embedded in an energy matrix of Nature and the direction of our soul’s evolution. Awakening to these vital underlying patterns raises intense questions for us about our relationship to nature: questions that now need to be confronted.
see what I was looking for was the quote by Jung,the one where he was saying Sophia is going to return in the near future
on earth
in the body of man
tension of opposites,the truth I was showing you,the fact that I'm bipolar and that I know all good comes from bad
relativity,the boredom that would permit change,disorder
that was 1 and 2
3,the process that would allow us a way of returning..
the happiness.. through love and forgiving...
through learning,through suffering for.. producing positive energy..
Me:Many of the world’s people, like the Buddhists, of course, believe in reincarnation. They hold that it takes more than one lifetime for the soul to mature. The theosophists would say that we all must undergo four initiations before there is sufficient soul infusion for conscious living. They would say that mankind, as a whole, is just entering the 1st initiation, where the heart begins to integrate with the intellect. The second and third initiations have been demonstrated by the lives of such people as Ghandi, Mother Theresa, and the Dalai Lama. Christ was believed to have taken the fourth initiation, which requires a profound sacrifice.
dude
I want to know now,what this "profound sacrifice"
is supposed to be
Him:i wonder...
Me:now..
my mind and heart
were the same
years ago
my intention and my sense of right and wrong
the actions I took fully integrated with my perception of what is "right"
I've always followed my heart
I told you that earlier,too
Me:Sophia has faith in the living processes, and she comes to teach us that. Her reconciliation of dark and light, nature and spirit generates a certain detachment, a wider understanding. She asks us to be more “philosophical”(i.e. philo…sophia ) about our own life and death. In this, she offers us a living universe that is much more immense and complex than held by our present view.
How would a sense of detachment relate to the sustainability of the earth?
.......
Him:?
Me:Jung, again, pointed to a different function of detachment, when he wrote of the process of individuation, the way for increasing self-knowledge. The very principles of the Jungian work: the creative tension of opposites, descent journeys and the transcendent function are born on the carrying wave of the Sophia archetype. These principles move us through matter and ultimately bring greater light and a sense of union. They change our view of reality and the basis of our choices. This is Sophianic wisdom.
this
"dettachment"
Me:Jung, again, pointed to a different function of detachment, when he wrote of the process of individuation, the way for increasing self-knowledge. The very principles of the Jungian work: the creative tension of opposites, descent journeys and the transcendent function are born on the carrying wave of the Sophia archetype. These principles move us through matter and ultimately bring greater light and a sense of union. They change our view of reality and the basis of our choices. This is Sophianic wisdom.
this
Him:huh
Me:this "dettachment"
that they talk about
I think
it applies to the fact that
I'm bipolar
I mean think about it
I said earlier
I was lead to God,had to turn to faith,because I couldn't find it in myself because I couldn't have known it then
because of my despair,my depression,that was a product of my mood disorder,something I can't control
extremes in depression and euphoria
the dettachment I experience from them.. how they "don't make sense"
how I don't control them
Me:how I gave my life to God because I know I can't control that.. I gave my life to faith,because I knew my emotions couldn't.. I couldn't have faith in them making sense as reactions to earthly occurences,necessarily
Me:I had to find faith beyond myself,I had to find something beyond myself to live for,and during depression I have to look outside of myself if I am to find any purpose in continuing to live.. y'know?
Him:yea..
Me:I am forced to see the bigger picture and look outside of the moment. if I didn't,I would have died during the first bout of nonsensical depression
it made me consider things on a more universal level.. it made me think objectively
but I made it my purpose
I chose to give it purpose
Me:I chose to want to save lives,to help people because of my disposition,to continue to learn and to love despite being hurt
i learned how anger is a choice
I learned how my pain is a blessing
I learned how action doesn't allign with intention from other peoples' perspectives
I chose to forgive
to help others,despite being ridiculed
despite being betrayed countless times by the people who have mattered most to me
despite..
being a position that people might consider being completely forsaken by God
and I've suffered countless tragedies.. you know this..
but I still love the people who have hurt me.. I love them al
*all
I know that if they knew what it really meant,they would be hurt mutually.. if I blamed them
for what they don't know
I cannot condemn people for their humanity.. I can't..
you can act on your intention,but the other person cannot see intention
and you know...
why I've always cried
what things have always mattered to me,and what things in life hurt me
right?
Him:right...
Me:you know when I've wanted to die before
it was because I thought it was the right thing to do to benefit the people who matter to me
because.. I didn't want to hurt people,as messed up as that seems
but you remember that,right?
Him:very
I remembered it ver much
Me:I live for love
for giving it
forgiving
forgiving God,for putting me in this position.. for my genetics
forgiving things that truly were never my intention,my fault,but yet they are my fault.. my faults to deal with,to live with
they're also things I am blamed for
by even my parents
they're things I cry for,too,that I am sad when I should be happy in appreciation for the kindness I am shown
that I'm happy when I should lament
is this more than just irony?
could this possibly be fate?
could irony have been fate in disguise this whole time?
Me:and even more symbolic
is how I don't know my mother,nor my father
Me:all I have to say is that it's a good thing I'm as much of a compulsive conversation saver as I am a compulsive writer and playlist maker and fanpage joiner >_>;
roflmao
Him:lol
Me:what do you think of all of this?
Him:maybe a little overwhelming, but
Him:it's really a major travel
Him:?
Him:er, wait
Him:it's really a big view over your entire life as with all of this philosophies; I never have been into it so deep before
Me:I've never expressed it in such depth before,either
not to this extent
craziness.. do you suppose it has any objective validity?
Him:not quite sure...
Me:but the things I showed you,and the things I decribed..
*described
they all made sense along the way,right?
Him:Absolutely
they all pieced togeter
in one way or another
Me:I can't deny my truth
the way I understand things,though
not everybody can understand
I know
not in the way I express them
not when they have no personal experience to understand the connections I try to make
so some people may not care
not until I find the connection.. the way to express it in a way that they can actually hear
something that's not offensive
not to them
something that doesn't give them the false impression I think I'm a better human
and that I appreciate their perspectives
that I,too,want to understand them
that I,too,am imperfect in my own ways.. and that
actually is why I willfully corrupted myself
like the first time I drank alcohol
was for that reason,specifically
that's why I tried weed once,I felt such a disconnect because I didn't have the same background,experience,I couldn't truly relate
I mean that's something I'm truly grateful for,from all of the darkness of my past,is that there are many people I can now relate to that without those experiences I wouldn't have been able to
the price is
I lose my purity in choosing that path,my natural innocence and naivety
and that would in a way seperate me from them,too
and for awhile,I thought it seperated me from God,because
christianity as they had taught it to me would have condemned me for following such a path
for choosing such a thing,even if for the reasons I did
but I figured that if God understood,he must not be that way,truly..
so I disowned some of the more common views of christianity
and catholicism :\
Him:hm
Me:only later did I come to realize what they really were
and why they depicted God in that way
and that I was right all along in what I thought
that God wouldn't leave me when I had pledged my life to him
and that through my pain and suffering,I was being shown the path he wanted me to take.. the one most beneficial to understand things for what they truly are
Me:I knew I knew what I knew
and I know what I know I know
and I'll always know what I've always known
Me:cause I think that's the thing..
truth doesn't change in time
interpretations of truth do
Me:objectively,if I'm wrong,it's because my words fail to communicate my intention properly in the perspective of the listener
I know my truth is still my truth,regardless of the other person's perception
Me:the misunderstanding that results from the perception of space causes me feel sad in thought
*me to feel
because we're not different.. we're all human
we all have more commonalities than differences
animals.. also have the same energy as we do
plants,too
:(
idk, I've been spending all my spare time learning
and trying to make a difference,more and more
Me:that's why I took the initiative to make those groups on facebook,those videos on youtube way back when,why I always offer people a shoulder to cry on,guidance when they're lost and hurt,a way to see the light of any darkness.. y'know?
Him:Yea, I know
Me:I haven't been social
in the way of just
going out and having fun as people would consider it traditionally
it upsets my parents,and I get yelled at for it
they say I'm selfish for it
they punish me for it at times,too
but I know it's because they don't understand,so I don't blame them
Me:I mean there's no point in being offended for something like that,really
even if it hurts me
because if it hurts me.. it's an opportunity to take away somebody's pain
I'd rather people vent on me
because it doesn't hurt me the same way it would hurt them
especially since I'm more used to pain
especially since..
my moods won't be determined by it
o.o
Him:hmm...
Me:I just realized how convinient that is
Him:huh?
Me:the fact that my moods aren't determined by what people say or do
I mean they CAN be
if I decide I should be angry or something and it seems completely logical at the time
and my body was already in the mood of agitation?
my brain tingles when I'm angry
it's a weird thing,almost like biofeedback
when it does that,I realize I'm mad,and I can't stay mad
Me:..I really don't take things personally. Not unless I'm depressed,then everything that ever happened becomes personal.
but then I have to disconnect from the emotion making my logic that way,because.. it's a distortion,and I can't properly judge how much of what I think is true
Me:I'm sorry for rambling so much
I am rambling a crazy amount o.o I don't know why
Him:Dun sweat it
Me:?
Him:?
Me:I thought you were gonna type somethin'
Him:oh
I just remembered what I was about to type
lol
Him:wait, nvm
Him:whoa, I didn't notice the time......Oo
Me:yeah,I just sent my other friend a message,too
lmao
cause
apparently chat isn't working well o.o
Her quote:"Music is like candy: You throw away the (w)rappers."
Me:don't forget the acronym.. (c)rap,because you can't spell crap without rap,and you can't spell rap without thinking of the acronym:
R - rectums
A - attempting
P - prose
55 minutes ago
lol,an hour ago
jeez,time flies
Him:lmao
i know, huh?
Me:srsly
Him:and morning no less...
Me:lol
you should sleep
I should,too
Him:i know
after I restore sound to this latop
ooor after school
lol
yeeeeea, after school
need sleeps
Me:oh snap
school
lol
totally forgot
you REALLY should be asleep
like 5 hours ago
D:
Him:true, but I DID choose to stay up on one hand
Him:I'll be fine, in-between naps during breaks will bring me up to speed, lol
Me:it's not too late to sleep
I could just talk to you tomorrow
Him:mmmkay, cuz I dun want ta worry ya
Me: :)
good
go sleep! lol
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