Squaring of the circle.

Tuesday, April 6, 2010

Metaphysical Theory

Me:Would you rather live with the pain of losing the person who means the most to you,or give your life,leaving them with the pain that you would have felt same?

Him:that's a difficult decision

Me:that is a hard decision.. I agree

I was thinking about that and other things

but

don't you think God is the one who needs our forgiveness,and needs us to accept him?

cause I mean.. otherwise,wouldn't he not exist?


Him:hmmm....guess he wouldn;t and without him, we wouln't necessarily understood the basics of morality, do we?


Me:well,idk,would we?

it seems the bible has helped us understand that

and so has living


Him:hrmmm, in a way, yes


Me:God isn't physically here

as in like

the specific entity of God,if we consider him as one concept


Him:ahhh


Me:all the pain and suffering we go through,we suffer through it because he created us

if you want to think of him as the divine creator

but it's necessary,because every emotion is based on relative shift in mood

otherwise we wouldn't feel

just like the perception of time is based on relative difference

the perception of difference is based on relative degree of space

and god would be what allowed difference through change


Me:but God,himself,could not exist within the same realm of time and difference,otherwise he wouldn't have truly been the creator,would he?


Me:but God,himself,could not exist within the same realm of time and difference,otherwise he wouldn't have truly been the creator,would he?


Him:huh...


Me:unless it was something trippy like star ocean,and we're all characters in a video game or movie or some shit like that


Him:lol


Me:and there are other dimensions

and the beings can come and go as they please

and even then,they still aren't really Gods,are they?


Him:no, not necessarily


Me:even if they created this world

and this was the video game,the creation

they would not truly be gods

because to exist,something must have created them,if they exist within a construct of difference

this is like super-metaphysical theory right here :3


Him:lmao


Me:what truly doesn't make sense to me

is how have the majority of the people in the world not thought about things this deeply?

how come you don't hear about this type of theory? how come it isn't mainstream when it's pure logic?

I think I know what God is


Him:what?


Me:okay,well.. imagine you died

and you lived in a state of bliss

where things were happy and they stayed that way

heaven

but nothing bad happened

ever

first of all,wouldn't that be a completely phony state of existence?

and secondly,if nothing bad happened,and no pain was felt,we,as humans,would grow accustomed to the "happiness" and it would lose the value it had because it would become normal.. am I right?


Him:yea, that's right


Me:okay,soo....

if it became neutral,and we couldn't feel difference,wouldn't that get..boring?

if it was like the matrix,would you take the red pill?

lol


Him:in plain honesty, it would get boring

hence force, a utopia can easily also be a dystopia at the same time


Me:yes

disorder

even if people had been so horribly hurt in their lifetime

that

they were scarred and scared

without difference,they would ultimately.. forget what difference was,and be driven back to it out of curiousity and desire for change

for an adventure..

even if God created his creation,and the concept of free will

if he could control everything about his reality,and he had a perception in order to have a will,wouldn't he get bored,too?


Me:if he created a world,created a difference,wouldn't he also want to experience that same change himself because he wouldn't have created it without a motivation because otherwise,he wouldn't have conscious will?


Him:umm, yea, I would think, if it was seen to show fit


Me:otherwise,it would imply he doesn't know everything

lol

why would we make a simulation of reality when we know exactly what is going to happen?

there really wouldn't be any surprises,would there?


Him:not so much, yea


Me:it's like a video game

or maple story

you get lvl 200,max mesos,all the rare items,all the fame,everything

then what?

don't you.. start over eventually,if you're going to keep playing the game?



Me:do you see where I'm going with this?


Me:plus,under the laws of the universe,energy must originate from energy



Him:hmm

yea, i see where you were going


Me:God has to be energy

the same energy that our spirit is

the same energy any energy is

and that must be what the self truly is

a product of energy plus our body structure

which makes sense because the cerebral cortex,something

more thoroughly developed in humans compared to most(if

not all) other animals,is what is known to affect states of

consciousness and perception especially

I mean,that's why we'll always exist

just not in the same state of consciousness

and our state of consciousness is constantly changing based

upon neurochemical reactions triggered by changes in our

surrounding our our body's chemistry

or even by self-analysis

*or our

it explains why God wouldn't want us to destroy the meaning

we experience

because it would utterly lead to the destruction of the human

species,destruction of the state of knowing that "created

us",destruction of the ability to appreciate life until it is

rebuilt

which would take alot more senseless suffering

as.. our species would basically go extinct because of our own

failures

and the energy would have to go through the process of

reconstruction.. evolution would just start all over again



Him:that would be one big cycle


Me:which,when we look to the past,isn't that exactly what it has

been?

isn't that what almost everything is?

isn't that what scientists theorize the universe is undergoing?

you do realize

if we are all energy,the self is energy

that time is truly an illusion just as difference is,when you

consider it in that context?


Him:yea, when put in something like that


Me:so then,do you see why the Bible is a very good thing?

why morality is a good thing? o.o


Him:Oo


Me:is that a yeah or a no? lol




Him:yea, I see it


Me:religion

teaches spirituality

reverence for the human spirit,the essence of our existence,God

so we don't have to suffer

but to not suffer perpetually

we have to suffer in the present

that's where karma,reincarnation,the concept of

sin,hell,heaven,nirvana,that's where all of this ties in

that's how

buddhism,paganism,christianity,catholicism,judaism,wiccan

beliefs,all these religions

they're exactly the same.. if they serve the purpose of teaching

morality,they're exactly the same thing..

do you see it?



Him:yea,

I'm definitely seeing it


Me:the problem is

there are mistranslations,misinterpretations

the source of misunderstanding is our different perceptions

but jesus..

we have to accept our humanity and other peoples'

humanity,because we're all the same.. we're the same

energy,we're the same.. we'll all occupy each others' shoes

literally


Me:if we keep destroying humanity,our ability and reason to give

meaning to things,all good will utterly be pointless

and we have to forgive

because anything else is taking positive energy from the whole

process


Me:forgiving allows us to feel love.. positive,motivation for positive

change

it's the action that creates love

and we have to realize that people make mistakes,and that

anger can be a choice,or otherwise it is a product of

misunderstanding

we have to wake up. we need a spiritual awakening,to wake

people up to the idea of having a choice.. that they truly can

live

that they really can control their destiny


Me:because of the misinterpretations of religion and the pain

those misunderstandings cause,people are losing faith,people

are losing the will to forgive or the knowledge of the ability..

they're losing and destroying human will without even

realizing it

now I frankly don't know how


Me:I'm able to see this,but I dedicated my life to living for god at

a young age. I sold my soul for that cause,because I

experienced such devestation,I had nothing but faith,and

since I couldn't create it because I did not know then why I

should have it,I had to borrow it from God

by giving my life,dedicating my life to God and truth,to be

true to myself

I

have been lead to these understandings.. I guess I'm

something of a channel... o.o




Him:o.o


Me:I was born into my life,with my genes

and bipolar disorder was not my choice,nor was the

depression

I suffer beyond what I cause,but I choose to

but because I still have always strived to remain as true to

myself as I possibly could,and I never betrayed myself or my

method of learning

that's why I'm different.. that's why

I didn't have to read these truths to come to understand

them,how to describe them

these aren't just things I've read somewhere

this is a product of my own mind,my logic

I think that it means I'm purely a source of positive energy..

o.o;

because it's easier to die for me,you know

my genes say I should

statistics say I should

I probably should have died over the course of the various

times I tried to

but I didn't,and I learned even more from living

..What do you think this means?























Him:what it means,


Me:?


Him:it's hard to put into words, but kinda like a an intentional miracle, or more like


Me:...now I have to tell you the weirdest parts

when I was in 8th grade,I drew a picture,started to write a story about a fallen angel

who suffered through bipolar disorder,though I didn't know what bipolar disorder really was then,or that I was bipolar

and I wrote an epitath that I can't remember

I don't really remember the story,just that it existed,and that it scared my parents so they took it away

and so then you know how I drew that mandala without knowing what it was,right?


Him:yea?

i remember that


Me:well

I had this feeling

about it

so I went to 4chan.org with it

that's how I found out what it meant

they told me what it was

so I looked it up,and they recommended I look into certain things

I followed that through google,or the link,or w/e

and it lead me to pistis sophia

because apparently

my mandala has the same symbology as the philosopher's stone

and sophia was the creator of it

did I tell you anything about her?

what I read?


Him:not much bout it was said


Me:well.....

A special and richly coloured development is given to the mythical form of the Sophia of the Gnostic Book Pistis Sophia.[67] The two first books of this writing to which the name Pistis Sophia properly belongs, treat for the greater part[68] of the fall, the Repentance, and the Redemption of the Sophia. She has by the ordinance of higher powers obtained an insight into the dwelling-place appropriated to her in the spiritual world, namely, the thesauros lucis which lies beyond the XIIIth Aeon. By her endeavours to direct thither her upward flight, she draws upon herself the enmity of the Authades, Archon of the XIIIth Aeon, and of the Archons of the XII. Aeons under him; by these she is enticed down into the depths of chaos, and is there tormented in the greatest possible variety of ways, in order that so she may incur the loss of her light-nature.

In her utmost need she addresses thirteen penitent prayers (metanoiai) to the Upper Light. Step by step she is led upwards by Christus into the higher regions, though she still remains obnoxious to the assaults of the Archons, and is, after offering her XIIIth Metanoia, more vehemently attacked than ever, till at length Christus leads her down into an intermediate place below the XIIIth Aeon, where she remains till the consummation of the world, and sends up grateful hymns of praise and thanksgiving. The earthly work of redemption having been at length accomplished, the Sophia returns to her original celestial home.


Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)


Him:hmm,


Me:the weirder thing is

somebody told me to look at this particular article by Jung

the famous neo-freudian psychologist


Me: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/philosopherstone.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/jacob_pillar_dna.htm&usg=__2CdTBAzDiISdb5ljGBybWbmftb4=&h=516&w=571&sz=27&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=uy-r97aWo80EgM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphilosopher%2527s%2Bstone%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

notice how that picture..

scroll down

to where the picture is actually located in the context.

the bit about the jacob's ladder

and the holy grail

and alchemy


Him:mmk


Him:Oo


Me:also

last year

i did kundalini meditation

had a kundalini awakening o.o


Him:oo


Me:there's more

lol


Him:lol


Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala


Me:jung

is the one

who said that mandala's symbolis

*symbolize

the unconscious,our true state of existence

that they can be used to understand the self,the collective unconscious,as they are universally occuring across many cultures and universally hold symbolic meaning

he

http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=810&Itemid=40


Me:Buddhism, Christianity, Islam: (530 B.C to 0 – 600 A.D) all make mention of Sophia, yet each tradition adapts her to their own cosmology; and all increasingly become critical of nature. The goal of all these spiritual traditions is to rise above the earth and achieve Nirvana. Heaven, or Paradise.

dude,wtf


Him:Oo


Me:shi

). Mary Magdalene is described here as an intimate of Christ, mentored by Him and recognized as one who supported and taught the apostles. Early tapestries illustrate this prominence and relationship. This gospel records further teachings of Christ, such as:

“All that is born, all that is created and all the elements of nature are interwoven and united with each other.” And then Christ goes on to say: “all that is composed will be decomposed.” This is the fundamental Sophianic challenge: to view ourselves as a process unfolding within nature. Such a view places us beyond religious dogma, and opens us to on-going Creation.



Me:What wisdom awaits us here? Man’s deep fear of illness and death informs his pervasive need to control nature. Certainly, man’s innate intelligence is here to cure illness and provide palliative care for the dying. What we have not done is penetrate further into how fundamentally we are interwoven and united with nature, and how she provides the cog-wheel of our evolution.


Me:Henri Corbin has written: “It is not the incarnate Sophia’s role to bind or connect us to the earth, but to help us recognize that our understanding of ourselves as separate from the earth is a delusion.”

I hadn't been

at this page

before

omfg


the..irony...omg


Him:O.o


Me:what makes it

weird

er

is that

Here we see throughout the themes of descent and the balancing of opposites: the basic principles of soul work It is evident in the inserted circles of Demeter and Kali: the nurturing container (she who brings forth new life) and the transformer (she who demands the sacrifice that leads to truth). It is seen in the caduceus: the active equilibrium of opposing forces coming together in such a way as to create a higher form. It is evident in the earth, as child close to her heart, and in the symbols of the Kabbala whose purpose is to connect the finite world with the infinite.

she who demands the sacrifice that leads to truth


Him:O_o






Me:this

is too ironic

I

Sophia is emerging now, in these times of immense change, to challenge us again with her ways of knowing. She instructs us through her basic principles: (1) the creative tension of opposites (2) descent journeys (3) transcendence to a new form. Repetitive experience with each of these principles changes the nature of our ego, our reality and our relationship to “the Other.” These principles demonstrate the dynamism embedded in an energy matrix of Nature and the direction of our soul’s evolution. Awakening to these vital underlying patterns raises intense questions for us about our relationship to nature: questions that now need to be confronted.



see what I was looking for was the quote by Jung,the one where he was saying Sophia is going to return in the near future

on earth

in the body of man

tension of opposites,the truth I was showing you,the fact that I'm bipolar and that I know all good comes from bad

relativity,the boredom that would permit change,disorder

that was 1 and 2

3,the process that would allow us a way of returning..

the happiness.. through love and forgiving...

through learning,through suffering for.. producing positive energy..


Me:Many of the world’s people, like the Buddhists, of course, believe in reincarnation. They hold that it takes more than one lifetime for the soul to mature. The theosophists would say that we all must undergo four initiations before there is sufficient soul infusion for conscious living. They would say that mankind, as a whole, is just entering the 1st initiation, where the heart begins to integrate with the intellect. The second and third initiations have been demonstrated by the lives of such people as Ghandi, Mother Theresa, and the Dalai Lama. Christ was believed to have taken the fourth initiation, which requires a profound sacrifice.

dude

I want to know now,what this "profound sacrifice"

is supposed to be


Him:i wonder...


Me:now..

my mind and heart

were the same

years ago

my intention and my sense of right and wrong

the actions I took fully integrated with my perception of what is "right"

I've always followed my heart

I told you that earlier,too


Me:Sophia has faith in the living processes, and she comes to teach us that. Her reconciliation of dark and light, nature and spirit generates a certain detachment, a wider understanding. She asks us to be more “philosophical”(i.e. philo…sophia ) about our own life and death. In this, she offers us a living universe that is much more immense and complex than held by our present view.

How would a sense of detachment relate to the sustainability of the earth?


.......


Him:?


Me:Jung, again, pointed to a different function of detachment, when he wrote of the process of individuation, the way for increasing self-knowledge. The very principles of the Jungian work: the creative tension of opposites, descent journeys and the transcendent function are born on the carrying wave of the Sophia archetype. These principles move us through matter and ultimately bring greater light and a sense of union. They change our view of reality and the basis of our choices. This is Sophianic wisdom.

this

"dettachment"



Me:Jung, again, pointed to a different function of detachment, when he wrote of the process of individuation, the way for increasing self-knowledge. The very principles of the Jungian work: the creative tension of opposites, descent journeys and the transcendent function are born on the carrying wave of the Sophia archetype. These principles move us through matter and ultimately bring greater light and a sense of union. They change our view of reality and the basis of our choices. This is Sophianic wisdom.

this


Him:huh


Me:this "dettachment"

that they talk about

I think

it applies to the fact that

I'm bipolar

I mean think about it

I said earlier

I was lead to God,had to turn to faith,because I couldn't find it in myself because I couldn't have known it then

because of my despair,my depression,that was a product of my mood disorder,something I can't control

extremes in depression and euphoria

the dettachment I experience from them.. how they "don't make sense"

how I don't control them


Me:how I gave my life to God because I know I can't control that.. I gave my life to faith,because I knew my emotions couldn't.. I couldn't have faith in them making sense as reactions to earthly occurences,necessarily


Me:I had to find faith beyond myself,I had to find something beyond myself to live for,and during depression I have to look outside of myself if I am to find any purpose in continuing to live.. y'know?


Him:yea..


Me:I am forced to see the bigger picture and look outside of the moment. if I didn't,I would have died during the first bout of nonsensical depression

it made me consider things on a more universal level.. it made me think objectively

but I made it my purpose

I chose to give it purpose


Me:I chose to want to save lives,to help people because of my disposition,to continue to learn and to love despite being hurt

i learned how anger is a choice

I learned how my pain is a blessing

I learned how action doesn't allign with intention from other peoples' perspectives

I chose to forgive

to help others,despite being ridiculed

despite being betrayed countless times by the people who have mattered most to me

despite..

being a position that people might consider being completely forsaken by God

and I've suffered countless tragedies.. you know this..

but I still love the people who have hurt me.. I love them al

*all

I know that if they knew what it really meant,they would be hurt mutually.. if I blamed them

for what they don't know

I cannot condemn people for their humanity.. I can't..

you can act on your intention,but the other person cannot see intention

and you know...

why I've always cried

what things have always mattered to me,and what things in life hurt me

right?


Him:right...


Me:you know when I've wanted to die before

it was because I thought it was the right thing to do to benefit the people who matter to me

because.. I didn't want to hurt people,as messed up as that seems

but you remember that,right?


Him:very

I remembered it ver much


Me:I live for love

for giving it

forgiving

forgiving God,for putting me in this position.. for my genetics

forgiving things that truly were never my intention,my fault,but yet they are my fault.. my faults to deal with,to live with

they're also things I am blamed for

by even my parents

they're things I cry for,too,that I am sad when I should be happy in appreciation for the kindness I am shown

that I'm happy when I should lament

is this more than just irony?

could this possibly be fate?

could irony have been fate in disguise this whole time?


Me:and even more symbolic

is how I don't know my mother,nor my father


Me:all I have to say is that it's a good thing I'm as much of a compulsive conversation saver as I am a compulsive writer and playlist maker and fanpage joiner >_>;

roflmao


Him:lol


Me:what do you think of all of this?


Him:maybe a little overwhelming, but


Him:it's really a major travel


Him:?


Him:er, wait


Him:it's really a big view over your entire life as with all of this philosophies; I never have been into it so deep before


Me:I've never expressed it in such depth before,either

not to this extent

craziness.. do you suppose it has any objective validity?



Him:not quite sure...


Me:but the things I showed you,and the things I decribed..

*described

they all made sense along the way,right?


Him:Absolutely

they all pieced togeter

in one way or another


Me:I can't deny my truth

the way I understand things,though

not everybody can understand

I know

not in the way I express them

not when they have no personal experience to understand the connections I try to make

so some people may not care

not until I find the connection.. the way to express it in a way that they can actually hear

something that's not offensive

not to them

something that doesn't give them the false impression I think I'm a better human

and that I appreciate their perspectives

that I,too,want to understand them

that I,too,am imperfect in my own ways.. and that

actually is why I willfully corrupted myself

like the first time I drank alcohol

was for that reason,specifically

that's why I tried weed once,I felt such a disconnect because I didn't have the same background,experience,I couldn't truly relate

I mean that's something I'm truly grateful for,from all of the darkness of my past,is that there are many people I can now relate to that without those experiences I wouldn't have been able to

the price is

I lose my purity in choosing that path,my natural innocence and naivety

and that would in a way seperate me from them,too

and for awhile,I thought it seperated me from God,because

christianity as they had taught it to me would have condemned me for following such a path

for choosing such a thing,even if for the reasons I did

but I figured that if God understood,he must not be that way,truly..

so I disowned some of the more common views of christianity

and catholicism :\


Him:hm


Me:only later did I come to realize what they really were

and why they depicted God in that way

and that I was right all along in what I thought

that God wouldn't leave me when I had pledged my life to him

and that through my pain and suffering,I was being shown the path he wanted me to take.. the one most beneficial to understand things for what they truly are



Me:I knew I knew what I knew

and I know what I know I know

and I'll always know what I've always known


Me:cause I think that's the thing..

truth doesn't change in time

interpretations of truth do



Me:objectively,if I'm wrong,it's because my words fail to communicate my intention properly in the perspective of the listener

I know my truth is still my truth,regardless of the other person's perception


Me:the misunderstanding that results from the perception of space causes me feel sad in thought

*me to feel

because we're not different.. we're all human

we all have more commonalities than differences

animals.. also have the same energy as we do

plants,too

:(

idk, I've been spending all my spare time learning

and trying to make a difference,more and more


Me:that's why I took the initiative to make those groups on facebook,those videos on youtube way back when,why I always offer people a shoulder to cry on,guidance when they're lost and hurt,a way to see the light of any darkness.. y'know?


Him:Yea, I know


Me:I haven't been social

in the way of just

going out and having fun as people would consider it traditionally

it upsets my parents,and I get yelled at for it

they say I'm selfish for it

they punish me for it at times,too

but I know it's because they don't understand,so I don't blame them



Me:I mean there's no point in being offended for something like that,really

even if it hurts me

because if it hurts me.. it's an opportunity to take away somebody's pain

I'd rather people vent on me

because it doesn't hurt me the same way it would hurt them

especially since I'm more used to pain

especially since..

my moods won't be determined by it

o.o


Him:hmm...


Me:I just realized how convinient that is


Him:huh?


Me:the fact that my moods aren't determined by what people say or do

I mean they CAN be

if I decide I should be angry or something and it seems completely logical at the time

and my body was already in the mood of agitation?

my brain tingles when I'm angry

it's a weird thing,almost like biofeedback

when it does that,I realize I'm mad,and I can't stay mad


Me:..I really don't take things personally. Not unless I'm depressed,then everything that ever happened becomes personal.

but then I have to disconnect from the emotion making my logic that way,because.. it's a distortion,and I can't properly judge how much of what I think is true


Me:I'm sorry for rambling so much

I am rambling a crazy amount o.o I don't know why



Him:Dun sweat it


Me:?


Him:?


Me:I thought you were gonna type somethin'


Him:oh

I just remembered what I was about to type

lol



Him:wait, nvm


Him:whoa, I didn't notice the time......Oo


Me:yeah,I just sent my other friend a message,too

lmao

cause

apparently chat isn't working well o.o

Her quote:"Music is like candy: You throw away the (w)rappers."

Me:don't forget the acronym.. (c)rap,because you can't spell crap without rap,and you can't spell rap without thinking of the acronym:
R - rectums
A - attempting
P - prose
55 minutes ago

lol,an hour ago

jeez,time flies


Him:lmao

i know, huh?


Me:srsly


Him:and morning no less...


Me:lol

you should sleep

I should,too


Him:i know

after I restore sound to this latop

ooor after school

lol

yeeeeea, after school

need sleeps


Me:oh snap

school

lol

totally forgot

you REALLY should be asleep

like 5 hours ago

D:


Him:true, but I DID choose to stay up on one hand


Him:I'll be fine, in-between naps during breaks will bring me up to speed, lol


Me:it's not too late to sleep

I could just talk to you tomorrow


Him:mmmkay, cuz I dun want ta worry ya


Me: :)

good

go sleep! lol

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